Curse

Zuranthium · Apr 11, 2007, 03:26 AM // 03:26

5 energy
10 energy
15 energy
25 energy

That's all we get. It could be EXTREMELY helpful when balancing skills to spread the numbers out a bit. I believe having about half of all skills at these values is good so that there's a base to compare things with, but it could be really nice to have some variety. Some skills will simply never be balanced at either 5 or 10 energy. The skill will always just be sucky at 10 energy or a bit too strong at 5. Why not have an in-between? There are still plenty of skills out there right now that need tweaking. Let's consider this option.

Thoughts?

~Z

Neo-LD · Apr 11, 2007, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Probably a good idea, but it would be pretty complicated to find the right cost for some skills. I dont know if Anet could handle it. Their understanding of their own game is pretty sketchy even now, so I cant see them making the game more complicated on themselves.

Bankai · Apr 11, 2007, 06:43 AM // 06:43

I definately think so. Some skills would be much better of with a cost of 20 energy, and some are just hovering between 5 and 10 energy cost.

Lord Natural · Apr 11, 2007, 06:51 AM // 06:51

They still can't seem to balance Factions and Nightfall so I figure adding more options to the mix would just confuse the devs moreso.

LightningHell · Apr 11, 2007, 08:36 AM // 08:36

Devs are simple people...leave them alone. :P

On a more serious note, that'd be interesting. I've always wanted to see how a variable cost would work out (i.e. 25...10 cost scaling from attribute).

minor · Apr 11, 2007, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Well if you take into account ranger expertise, attunements on eles, and the fact the Gole is still good energy, I think its ok. They all help manage the real energy cost. if skills could cost any amount, it would be a lot harder for anet to figure the "right" cost, particulary beacuse of all the things mentioned 1st . See how many ppl going crip slash should be 4 adren, no 5 adren, no it should do xzy and be 6.Imagine that with every skill.

Patccmoi · Apr 11, 2007, 01:06 PM // 13:06

I agree, but i think that's something that should've been done from the start and it's too late for that. GW isn't a new game, and i'd much rather have them working on balancing skills decently with what they have than start adding variables and likely screw up even more in the process. If the skill is too costy at 10E but too good at 5E, either nerf it so that it's balanced at 5E or buff it so that it's good enough for 10E.

Bugeater · Apr 11, 2007, 02:08 PM // 14:08

I don't think it's too late. If a skill is too costly at 10e, but too good at 5e, price it at 8e and call it a day. I don't really see that screwing things up much, rather giving another tool in fine-tuning the balance of skills.

It is a little late in the game to have scaling energy costs with attributes, I agree on that.

Byron · Apr 11, 2007, 03:34 PM // 15:34

I don't see a problem with the 4 energy classes that are there. It goes along nicely with the bonuses from staves and what-not. I can't really think of a 5 or 10 energy skill that woudl be better at 8 energy...

samcobra · Apr 11, 2007, 03:46 PM // 15:46

the only thing I think is missing is a 20 energy level skill. OTher than that, its fine as far as I see it.

Bankai · Apr 11, 2007, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Yes, 20 would be really nice. The jump from 15 to 25 is huge.

Patccmoi · Apr 11, 2007, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bankai

Yes, 20 would be really nice. The jump from 15 to 25 is huge.

Ya that's something i could see. For some reason ANet decided to never use 20E for spells, but in many cases it would've been better. Some skills are just not worth 25E but would be too strong at 15E. Say Conjure Nightmare.

Zuranthium · Apr 11, 2007, 04:33 PM // 16:33

I don't like the idea of scaling costs with attributes.

Also remember that you can go LOWER than 5 energy.

Vigorous Spirit sucks but what if it had 0 recharge and cost 4 energy? Now it's looking attractive to spam across the entire party.

~Z

l Batman l · Apr 11, 2007, 10:56 PM // 22:56

You can just change the effectiveness of the skill instead of the energy cost, it's basically the same thing without making it more complicated.

skillsbas8 · Apr 11, 2007, 11:04 PM // 23:04

With them scaling the energy gain of ZB between 5 and 10, I see more diverse energy costs as a definite possibility.

Zuranthium · Apr 12, 2007, 03:42 AM // 03:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by l Batman l

You can just change the effectiveness of the skill instead of the energy cost, it's basically the same thing without making it more complicated.

I don't see how it's any more complicated. You're just changing a number either way.

In the case of Vigorous Spirit, you want the energy to be lower rather than the effect to be higher because you're spamming it.

Blessed Light is begging to be 8 energy. It's not worth it these days at 10, but obviously would be WAY too good at 5, and simply increasing the healing component doesn't fix the problem since you want the spell to be flexible removal not just a big heal.

~Z

Razz L Dazzle · Apr 12, 2007, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patccmoi

Ya that's something i could see. For some reason ANet decided to never use 20E for spells, but in many cases it would've been better. Some skills are just not worth 25E but would be too strong at 15E. Say Conjure Nightmare.

Ya i'd agree that a 20 energy option would be a good idea. Conjure Nightmare is non-existant b/c of 25 energy on a mesmer. There a few other skills that may see limited play like Lingering curse at 20. Not sure on 6,7,8 energy skills, seems like a better idea to balance the skill at 5,10 then to add more variables to the equation.

Johnny Smash · Apr 13, 2007, 09:37 AM // 09:37

The mana cost is the baseline for how good the skill is allowed to be. Every other aspect of a skill is variable but the skill is always going to fit into one of the four main categories, making skills easier to compare.

Do we really want to have to say "Which is better, this 8 mana attack or this 11 mana attack??" When they're both at 10 mana, it is easy to measure the power of the skill since we know how good a 10 mana skill should be. Because this helps us (more than we may think) it's probably better to just adjust a skill based on it's power.

There isn't the need for too much variation since 5 mana skills are usually basically spammable so you don't need lower energy skills... I'd say the only gap from 15-25 IS a bit odd, 25 is a lot of mana...

Byron · Apr 13, 2007, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Global expertise is a bad idea, IMO. Attributes affect skills, unique attribs have innate effects. Why make it more complex?

Bankai · Apr 13, 2007, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Smash

The mana cost is the baseline for how good the skill is allowed to be. Every other aspect of a skill is variable but the skill is always going to fit into one of the four main categories, making skills easier to compare.

Do we really want to have to say "Which is better, this 8 mana attack or this 11 mana attack??" When they're both at 10 mana, it is easy to measure the power of the skill since we know how good a 10 mana skill should be. Because this helps us (more than we may think) it's probably better to just adjust a skill based on it's power.

There isn't the need for too much variation since 5 mana skills are usually basically spammable so you don't need lower energy skills... I'd say the only gap from 15-25 IS a bit odd, 25 is a lot of mana...

There are some skills that currently cannot be balanced within these 4 criteria. Either they will become too strong, or too weak.